R-Ray of Frost? I didn't know Mages were now Demon Hunters.
or demon hunter are now mages? :thinking:well lore wise too strong, illidan was a mage of sorts before becoming DH so gg hahahhahaha
It's fiery brand not Ray of frost
i was looking forward to my main specc since the start of this series, but that is like way too short
Class plays very similar to before but has less sustain imo, but I guess thats across the board for all tanks so relatively speaking not so much? It's still fun to play for sure but having a good healer feels a lot more noticeable for sure.
"As you may have noticed, almost nothing has actually changed for Vengeance."Glaringly wrong, I have to say. The change to Fracture is massive. Fracture now generates resource (rather than spending), still spawns fragments, and replaces Shear. This makes the rotation incredibly more smooth and sensical. You no longer have to generated, use Fracture, generate again, then use Soul Cleave. Generation is faster, spending is faster, the rotation is quicker, and healing is improved. One of the core abilities has been entirely swapped, changing how it plays.
That is quite short, nothing on talents that changed? Nothing on azerite traits(regardless of numbers some are worse than others for specific things)? Didn't know the DH community was so tiny, makes me sad. Though it does also speak to how bad Blizzard has done with tanks this prepatch, I feel blizz did all of them dirty in the worst way :( As someone who was a Veng DH main in Legion, the difference with prepatch is very large in terms of how it feels, and honestly lack luster in a lot of ways.The spec feels stripped down to bare bones even though it wasn't really complex in the first place. Feels like it is missing 3+ actives with some additional decision making. Also spenders feels worse, but that is a prepatch thing in general as most specs feel worse spending resources than they did before prepatch.
Vengeance is still a lot of fun for me. It’s one of 2 specs that I got the challenge appearance on so honestly, even if it’s nerfed into the ground, I’m still gonna play it :) same with feral.
I'm maintanking as veng whole legion.In my opinion mitigation is very very weak - the weakest of any other tanks. On prepatch it's "playable" with 3rd spike from legs/shoulders but with 2 stacks of spikes 20s cooldown hurts so much. Demon spikes provide much more mitigation than metamorphosis. Meta is now useless. I can stay 5th stack with demon spikes active on Argus Mythic but I can't survive 3rd stack with metamorphosis(3 min CD) without actived spikes - nonsense.Utility due to jumps are amazing but as main tank for raids DH would get a huge number of damage taken.Playstyle is now completely different, we have rotation to dps now. I fell bad of drasticly reduced survivability.
There's honestly just not a lot to say about Vengeance right now. Unfortunately DH has followed the trend of DK and Monk where the 2nd expansion of a new class seems to be completely forgotten. Very little was changed, effectively *all* artifact traits were lost (the 2 that are available as talents are extremely lackluster), our only % based defensive is now on the GCD, and nothing was added.DH will shine in M+ because it does a lot of damage and has high mobility, but will likely be completely bottom in raids due to the complete lack of any baseline magic damage mitigation and otherwise very poor cooldowns. Metamorphosis isn't even a good CD anymore, the health and armor it gives aren't enough to be used on its own, while Demon Spikes is generally plenty to survive a big hit. The only benefit is that the health increase gives a small buffer to incoming magic damage, but the armor portion only increases unbuffed armor, which is a very low value. EDIT: I forgot that Demon Spikes is still only 2 charges, that's going to be tough for folks to get used to with the longer CD and no legendary pants.The comment above saying that Fracture is a big change is not entirely correct. When you replace Shear with Fracture, you gain almost literally nothing but GCDs. In fact, 3 Shears are more than 2 Fractures in terms of generation, but the issue comes down to the fact that Pain generation is nearly meaningless. All you're getting out of pain generally is more soul cleaves, which is very low damage and healing, the majority is coming out of souls, which you're gathering with Spirit Bomb. So yes, while Fracture going from a spender to a generator is fundamentally a large change, it has very little impact on the gameplay. Disappointing, to say the least. Maybe they'll see a big rework in 8.1, but I get the feeling it may not come until 9.0. I foresee a lot of the Vengeance DH switching to other tanks in the meantime for any serious progression.
all i care about is getting what i imagined we were getting when DH were first announced. Metamorphasis (the visual form, not the buff) being our perma defensive model when tanking. this is how i imagined it when we first got previews, and i've been insanely disappointed with it's actual implementation since it's release. Till then, no thx. druids can be bears 24/7 while tanking, why can't DH be perma-metamorphed? it's an AMAZING skin and sux it's only seen for like 5 seconds twice per fight?
This was indeed very short. I agree it’s hard to say nice things of a spec that has received very little changes specially in the talent tree and in things that the community has echoed endlessly now (major tank CD? AM uptime?). Besides, probably VDH has the worst talent tree in terms of options - basically what makes a talent tree; since most rows have one talent that is vastly superior to the competitors defensively and offensively.The tank also has a very low skill floor as commented but also a very, VERY low skill ceiling - it’s pretty easy to be among the top vengeance players in raid, where mobility by design is limited (you can’t move the boss a lot so not to lower melee dps) and 3/4 of the sigils are useless. The only decision you have to take is when to use the 2nd charge of Demon Spikes, as it’s dumb to sit on 2/2 charges, save for really tough incoming damage or if you’re not tanking. Fire Brand and Meta usage can even be called by the raid leader - or the healers - and there’s absolutely nothing more to micromanage under the two most likely to be used raid talents - the passive Void Reaver (just keep using Soul Cleave) and the even more passive Last Resort.The player is left with a Fracture/Shear -> Soul Cleave rotation with Spirit Bomb now and than to keep the buff with immolation on CD. It’s literally a 3-4 ability tank, you cannot make mistakes save for encounter mechanics.Hopefully some flavor (raid-wide) can be included in the spec (or literally recovered after the loss of legendaries and artifact) in 8.1, most likely 8.2
Providing a list of changes might seem redundant, but so is clicking around multiple articles. Agreed that this is very short. Three contributors for this?
Wow, what a goddamn lazy guide. Those things dipped in quality so bad. No changes at all ? Jesus, did they even play the DH in 8.0 ?