Dochelix의 댓글

Got this last night as an Enhance shaman and I have to say it's a freaking awesome weapon.

If you're already well-set for hit this weapon is arguably better than the Hellscream Slicer, and has a better socket color than it's near mirror-twin the Blackhorn Bludgeon which also drops off 10 man Heroic ToC Anub.

All in all this is a near perfect Enhance shaman Dual-Wield weapon.

Xystophoros의 댓글

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage people to take this as a tanking weapon, considering it's near- best-in-slot for Enhancement Shamans and Rogues.

Right now, the only weapons better than this are the Crusader heroic/hardmode 25-man drops, which means for a large percentage of the Rogue and Shaman playerbase, this weapon is the best they'll have reasonable access to.

Notice your link to a list of tanking weapons shows 18 possible choices -- almost all of them would be better than the Frostblade Hatchet for tanking purposes. Taking the Frostblade Hatchet for tanking, at the expense of a Shaman or Rogue, is tantamount to those idiots who used to roll against tanks for Last Laugh, because pre-3.1 it was the highest-DPS weapon that could be used in the off-hand, despite the fact that it had Defense, Parry and lots of item budget used on Stamina.

Unless the Rogues and Enhancement Shamans in your guild have already had their pick of Frostblade Hatchets -- or the near-equivalent mace -- I suggest you and other DK tanks defer to them to avoid causing a significant amount of loot drama.

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Edit: The posts below make a case for dual-wield tanking DK taking Frostblade Hatchet over a Rogue or Enhancement Shaman, for which Frostblade Hatchet is near best-in-slot. (Excepting ToGC hard mode 25-man drops). The argument seems to be that because Death Knights can now conceivably DW tank, they are entitled to take BiS or near-BiS weapons from DPS. The other part of the argument is that both weapons can be enchanted for Expertise. Both arguments are questionable:

The problem with your argument is that Frostblade Hatchet does not have any Expertise or Hit on it, but there are tanking-oriented weapons that do have such stats and CAN be dual-wielded.

Second, if you're looking to increase your Expertise, there are ways to do that without taking a near-BiS weapon from the DPS in your raid -- gem for it. As an Enhancement Shaman, four of my valuable gem slots are stuffed with the epic 20 Expertise gems. I do not roll on Strength rings with Expertise to compensate for that or free up my gem slots, as that would be unfairly taking loot better itemized for DKs, Warriors and Paladins.

And finally, the viability of DK DW tanking is still very much in question, with some sources saying it's fine for heroics but not nearly optimal for raids, and others saying it's actually a decrease in threat in exchange for some avoidance -- which again, you can get with gems and enchants, without having to resort to taking near-BiS weapons from the DPS in your group.

Rogues may have more options, but Shamans are currently limited to axes, maces and fist weapons, and there are currently no fist weapons in the latest tier of raiding, so this axe and the Blackhorn Bludgeon are the only real options for them.

Again, taking this weapon over a DPS like a Rogue or Shaman is tantamount to DPS taking Last Laugh in Tier 7, or the greedy rogues who used to ninja the Sun Eater from tanks who had run Mechanar countless times in the hopes of seeing it drop in TBC.

The argument that something could be used by one class or spec does not mean they should take it, when it's one of a very few weapon options for Rogues and Shaman, and it is itemized specifically with them in mind. If you want to insist that you should be able to roll for Frostblade Hatchets and Blackhorn Bludgeons as a DW DK tank, and your guild is okay with that, fine by me -- I'm just glad I don't have to raid with you.

26260의 댓글

"Tanks take weapons with tank-stats. No further discussion"

Tell em that if this were true all DK Tanks should be stuck to using this as a tanking 2H-er

255841의 댓글

"Tanks take weapons with tank-stats. No further discussion"

This is very easily justifiable.

When a weapon with tank stats on it drops, it is ONLY useful to tanks. Nobody would ever gives a moment's thought about using it in a dps spec. There are usually only 2 or 3 tanks in a raid. So, it only needs to drop a couple times and everybody that has a use for it will have it.

When a good dps weapon drops, there are usually quite a few people wanting it. This means that it's gonna need to drop many times before everyone that wants it will get it.

Tanks get gear easily, since nobody else can use them. A large number of dps fight over the same gear. Why make it even harder for them by letting tanks take that gear.

And if threat is a huge problem for a tank, tell the hunters and rogues to give them some help.

180488의 댓글

I think you miss some salient points, Xystophoros. The first is that slow "dps" weapons are preferable greatly for threat, and not much behind in avoidance, and that due to it's socket (which, let's be honest, benefits all classes and specs about equally), this is actually a pretty good weapon for a DK. It ought to be clear that it is much better than Last Laugh for a rogue or shaman ever was, so that analogy kinda falls apart. To that end, unless upgrading from very weak items, tanking-itemised expertise rings will be very bad for rogues and shaman in a way that this is not terrible for DW DK. Second, while there is one fist at that tier of raiding (if you consider ToGC 10 tribute chest the same tier as ToCG 10 Anub'arak), there are also no slow 1h swords which a DK could use but a shaman could not. In fact, ToC is very shaman-friendly in the weapon-type-distribution - all the slow 1h melee weapons in all of ToC are usable by shaman.

Where we wind up in the end if we are honest, as opposed to getting mad that someone in a different role might get the loot we covet, is the same place druids wind up in relation to hunters and sometimes plate, where the same weapons are desired for tanking and dps. Recall, Journey's End was at once the best weapon for hunters out of Naxx, and the best weapon for a feral druid (cat or bear). As such, both tanks and dps would roll for the same BiS gear. Likewise, healers and caster dps have been going through this all through LK due to spellpower normalisation. There is no reason rogues and shaman should be immune to the fact that what is good for them is sometimes good for someone else.

I think what I reject is more your apparent mindset, rather than the idea that this isn't a good DW DK tank weapon. Due to the modern raid environment of Tricks of the Trade and Misdirect, I personally feel threat isn't a critical issue, and the major advantage a DW tank has over 2h is the increased survival stats and would be better served by using traditional tank weapons. However, that's not the argument you made. You instead said something more along the lines of: "This is good for Rogues and Shamans, so you can't have it."

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