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Sebas의 댓글

Many people are turned off by the damage shown for this skill because they do not realize this skill's strength. No, this is not just a "weak eviscerate with more requirements"...this skill does NATURE damage, which means it is unaffected by armor, which reduces the armor of pretty much all of a rogue's other attacks. Nature resistance may be a problem, though...

Xaoc의 댓글

EDIT: Read the formula incorrectly.

Does anyone know a little bit more info about this? With an arbitrary AP (say 1000) and 5 applications, the formula spits out 870 dmg. 870 points of (usually) unmitigated dmg seems a little meh, even against a highly armored target. Being that the dmg is Nature, but the ability is Physical, does it crit often like Pysical spells? Or does it have low crit like Magic spells.

Tigraine의 댓글

Did it also appear to you that the animation isn't showing up sometimes?
I still have to figure out why, but sometimes the animation is missing (too big mobs maybe?)

12996의 댓글

So far this skill sucks in my opinion. The damage over time from my deadly poisons + an Eviscerate is more then an envenom. I can see it being usefull for a paladin using BOP or something to that effect, but otherwise, gg blizzard on F'ing over rogues with BC skills. Cloak of Shadows is our only skill worth mentioning, since the change of Anesthetic poison. =(

darkarsenic의 댓글

The thing about envenom is getting the right amount of charges for the right amount of combo points. You might not be able to get those 5 charges within 12 seconds. it's much too situational, and using shiv with deadly poison is a waste, instant poison will do comparable damage, if not more, with greater control of the fight. a true PvPer will use wounding MH and crippling OH at 70 anyways. Wounding gives you anti-healer capabilities and damage, and crippling is for everything else. rupture or expose armor would be a better use of combo points IMO.

Paps의 댓글

Envenom spec: https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent=i0eboExoVdVoZEr0c0h

This is what I would use if I were trying to max out poison damage, but I haven't tried it yet. Any criticisms on this? Please note that this is pretty much a pure PvE spec.

Banatu의 댓글

I've been told something, rather consistently, by raiding rogues that Envenom beats the hell out of Eviscerate, even in pvp. With Vile Poisons, 1200 AP:

It's doing 1080 nature damage. 2k crits. People are getting 2k Cold Blood envenom crits in instances no sweat, with the rank one. With rank two, and 1400 AP, you'll be critting for 2.6k damage. Unmigitated.

Same situation, coldbooded eviscerate, dame mobs.. the crit's for around 1k. There miiight be an advantage to this, even if situational. Raiding you have 2x deadly up anyways, so what better way to use up deadly poison charges on a dying mob than 2.6k damage? =)

Nifty01의 댓글

Something I have noticed that I would like to warn to other rogues. If you have 5cp, it will only do damage based on the number of poison doses on the target but will still consume all combo points. However, it will only consume doses equivalent to the number of combo points, that is to say if you had 2cp, but 5 doses, you would do 2 doses worth of Envenom damage, and retain 3 doses on the target.

34089의 댓글

I accidentally posted here instead of as a reply, and now I have to say something so WoWHead will give me my computer back.

73623의 댓글

Im a sword combat rogue, and im using Envenom as finishing move, i got 5/5 vile poisons, and with the sword spec, every extra attack is another poison apply, so i dont have problems with that.My usual envenom crits are 3500-3600, and my highest were 4500-4600 which is insane... I havent tested this with an enh shammy in the raid ( Stormstrike ) but i hope to do it soon and find out whether it benefits from it.. 20% more dmg will be ,,,, :| ... The only problem is that some bosses are immune to poisons, but 2-3 bosses among 50 is nothing ;) This is a great skill and the other combat rogues in our raids always ask me "how do u dps like that" :P

Fugazi의 댓글

Raid buffed with 2500 AP and 30% crit (mob with 0 armor!):
Rupture = 1600 / 25 = 64 DPE (damage per energy)
Rupture + Mangle = 2080 / 25 = 83.2 DPE
Eviscerate = 1846 / 35 = 52.74 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) = 2250 / 35 = 64.28 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) + 2 set T5 bonus = 2567 / 35 = 73.34 DPE
Eviscerate + 2 set T5 bonus = 2106 / 35 = 60.17 DPE
Envenom = 1657 / 35 = 47.34 DPE
Envenom (talented) = 1989 / 35 = 56.83 DPE

Seems not that bad as Eviscerate damage will be lowered by armor (20%+ usually) but because it eats your poisons (lost dps) it is quite useless skill unless for finishing bosses on 1%.

94813의 댓글

I thought I would contribute that a lot of people are missing an important aspect of why Envenom is useful, and that is the one thing most of us who strictly use Deadly Poison fear most; wasted charges. What I mean is, say you miraculously stacked 5 charges on your target well before it's going to die. Well damn, now all your poison procs are going to waste (similar to getting 5 combo points... you're eager to use them immediately so you can start stacking a new bunch of them, correct?). But with Envenom, you can lop a few charges off and deal some hefty instant damage (putting those charges to good use!), then stack your charges back up again, which essentially prevents wasted Deadly Poison procs. For people who liberally apply Dead Poison as much as I do, it gives a nice little burst of damage periodically, one that Eviscerate just cannot do (even against casters).

Mekc의 댓글

imho the best sword PvE build is an Envenom build 20/41.
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent=f0ebovZMIVb0VzxMGkt

With my tier5 gear, in raid it crits for 4800-5100 (2000-2500 non-crits)

So Envenom>Rupture>Eviscerate

10128의 댓글

It has been mentioned that 2.4 might take away the poison consumption from Envenom, making it a very good technique to use.

113878의 댓글

I cant really decide what is better...I have gone crazy by calculating dps etc testing specs and all that stuff...I also hear and see many different opinions about what is better in raids...Can any1 say what is the best spec and what is better in dps to use in raids with some proof plx? Basicly i play the common 19/42/0 swords with 2 @ resist stun & fear effects which is quite good in some fights (aka archimonde where the main goal is to avoid the fire when u getting feared)Anyways i play only with eviscerate as a finishing move (since i have the bonus from T5) shiv to refresh or add deadly poison stacks and ss ofc...I have to try ss shiv and envenom or maybe rupture when malice is up...I am confused...bah any suggestions? :P

141113의 댓글

Youre in T5 and you think Envenom is better than Rupture?

How much did that account cost?

And good job, your amazing talent build that you linked is without doubt the most common raiding spec in the game. Its the best spec, ill give you that much.

We all know envenom hits hard - DUH. The fact thats being pointed out is that you are losing approximately 45 DPS until you can fully build up your DP stack again, making it inferior to Rupture and even Eviscerate.

Bout the only thing Envenom is good at killing is trash.

NightmareMJ의 댓글

Affected by Stormstrike and a few other "nature damage" increasing effects as well as wrath of air totem apparently.
With storm strike and mutilate spec this crits for well over 4K damage.
As shadow step envenom spec this will crit for over 5K.

faia의 댓글

Shiv like crazy with deadly+ envenom= nice grinder! (even for dagger!)

did do that vs clefthoofs bulls....fun and very good=)

145993의 댓글

Yes he has a point, but its not exactly true. As an assasin rogue i have seen amazingly high envenom crits, sure it takes your posions away, but if you are mutilate spec you should be able to put back on those posions in less than 5 sec, not to mention a envenom crit can hit from over 4k, yes i hit for 3k unbuffed, then 4k with buffs and sometimes even higher, i think that covers for the 5 sec without posions. I would like to see a combat rogue hit over 4k in kara/crafted gear. Then the topic of mutilate, its two attacks, meaning 2 chances to apply posions, not to mention you have daggers, meaning swift fast attacks for max posion applying, and also my basic mutilates hit up to 2.5k. Now lets see in one set of combo points thats around 8-9k. And not to forget seal of fate, 3 combo point mutilate for 2.5k.

But its all about what you like, but i always run into people saying Assassination is a waste of a spec, then i ask them, what is you highest crit :].

Chace의 댓글

Using Envenom as a filler between SnD and Rupture is quite viable for raiding Mutilate rogues. Seeing as how the combo point generation is very high with Mutilate.

164782의 댓글

As I've understood it for PvE,
Prio nr. 1. Always keep S&D up
Prio nr. 2. Keep Rapture up
And for the combo points you got left you use them on envenom.

thizzard의 댓글

Heres an idea of how powerful this is even at level 62.
5 Combo points, 5 doses, cold blood = 2400+
The deadly poison doses are the only frustrating part. I've gotten all 5 in 5 attacks, and havn't gotten any on the opponent I was fighting.
Don't know if it helps, but I was wielding daggers at the time.

162498의 댓글

Very underused skill in pvp.

Vile poisons is a must in any pvp build, so might as well take advantage of the +20% envenom damage. Now don't go putting deadly poison on your offhand, no that would be dumb. Instead, keep it on a spare offhand that you can swap in via a macro.

Perfect for those matches where warriors/pallys don't go down first. With a decent amount of attack power, this can easily crit plate for 3,000+.

121506의 댓글

Envenom is a VERY powerful skill *when properly used*, it can deal insane amounts of armour-ignoring damage if timed perfectly. Otherwise its damage ranges from very low to very high. It is definitely worth using while soloing and as a Cold Blood finisher in raids if you can fit it into your cycle.

122216의 댓글

No one has yet to mention it can also be used greatly for crowd controlling when soloing or PvP. If you have Deadly Poison but you need to blind 'em (which is broken due to any damage) you can use envenom to get your poison off and then CC 'em.

lovemuffins의 댓글

Anyone know if envenom is gonna be worth using in wrath raiding or will it be the same SnD and rupture?

Battosaix의 댓글

So if I understand right, a rogue specced with Cut to the Chase will be able to 1 pt SnD, envenom, rupture, envenom, rupture, and so on?

231124의 댓글

Rank 3 and 4 seem to have incorrect values (the constant in the formula is the same as it is in Rank 2)

239466의 댓글

Gj, blizz.
has the buff always been here, btw?

242515의 댓글

i was looking at envenom ranks n from rank 2 through rank 4 the description was the exact same, showing:

1 dose: dmg
2 doses: dmg
3 doses: dmg
4 doses: dmg
5 doses: dmg

this cant be right, right? i mean if rank 2 n rank 4 is the exact same dmg then what the point learning ranks 3 n 4...

anyone else noticed that n knows whats going on here?

Gaviin의 댓글

The tooltip currently shows that Rank 3 does the same damage as Rank 2, which is wrong. Blizzard is aware of the error. The current theory is that the real numbers are as follows.

1 dose: damage
2 doses: damage
3 doses: damage
4 doses: damage
5 doses: damage

Gaviin의 댓글

The tooltip currently shows that Rank 4 does the same damage as Rank 2, which is wrong. Blizzard is aware of the error. The current theory is that the real numbers are as follows.

1 dose: damage
2 doses: damage
3 doses: damage
4 doses: damage
5 doses: damage

Roomy의 댓글

1 dose: damage
2 doses: damage
3 doses: damage
4 doses: damage
5 doses: damage

With this system for Envenom, a 5 point 5 dose envenom only does 1780 unbuffed and only 2130 with the very high 3000ap buffed. Eviscerate does 2260-2912 base rank damage from the equal rank with 5 points, and doesn't require you to use Deadly Poison and lower your dps by not using the very much higher dps Wound Poison. Envenom gives you the temporary proc increase when you use it, but it's still not even close to the damage per proc of Wound poison, AND the envenom itself does less damage. The fact that Envenom takes off deadly poison marks is just like Sacrifice at the end of a tree that does nothing but buff your warlock pets, and it should be changed if they're not going to drastically increase the damage of Envenom. So if you spend all 8 points into increase proc and damage, it's still not even EQUAL to the damage that eviscerate is putting out with wound poison procs included as substituted for the Deadly poison dps. So my question is, why use Envenom?

When I was combat and Hemo spec at level 70 with the 70 ranks, I tried comparing dps using a rotation with Eviscerate and the same rotation with Envenom. While during both I had the same Deadly poisons on, and I found exactly the same dps while doing 5 point eviscerates as I did with 5 point 5 poison Envenoms. Before that test, I actually used Envenom every chance I had while in groups when using Deadly poison, so I really wanted to pull for Envenom. However, the tests showed try and try again that without the Vile Poisons and Improved Poisons talents at level 70 with the level 70 ranks, both abilities did about the same damage, so there would be no reason to use envenom even if you were using deadly poisons while using Eviscerate instead. The new ranks for 80 just widened the gap between the two with Eviscerate doing more. I really hope that with the fix that is coming for Envenom, they can do something to actually make the ability worth using over eviscerate. With the trouble you have to go through just to use it in your rotation and the chance that you'll be sitting there without 5 poisons on your target and screw up your rotation, envenom should do something so that it's worth using instead of Eviscerate.

Dexterious의 댓글

My record is 10500 with envenom. Got that crit in 10 man naxx to elite humanoid target. Here are my stats... http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sunstrider&n=Dexterious

277231의 댓글

one question...do u need to have deadly poison on one of ur weapons to use ENVENOM or not?
thx in front

299550의 댓글

is there a reason why i cant use envenom on any mobs or bosses in nax? kinda screwing up my whole rotation

250654의 댓글

Does this get the +10% crit buff from improved scorch if its a spell? Or the moonkin aura buff/totem of wrath? Just thinking if it does it might be a seriously nice move if it did but I would assume not since it does get the benefit from your crit chance. Still frostfire bolt used to get +6% hit from elemental mastery so I wouldn't put it past blizzard

Rorixis의 댓글

Patch Notes atm:

"Master Poisoner: Now also increases the bonus to apply Deadly Poison when Envenom is used by an additional 15/30/45%."

Should make it easy for mutilation rogues to stack DP up after Envenom.

269661의 댓글

The buff is actually counted as a poison mechanic dispel, which is illogical because enemies can't dispel poisons from you...
I wonder if a friendly target dispell would take it away however.

59603의 댓글

In my experience, if you have more combo points than the deadly doses on ur target, it won't let you do it. For example, if you have 5 combo points, but only 3 or 4 stacks deadly on ur target, it won't let you use envenom, that's VERY inconvenient. Anyone can confirm?

340836의 댓글

Big enough freaking gap in new moves for Rogues? Yeah. Thanks Blizz. Thanks. A lot. What was the newest ranked move we learned before this? Vanish? And that was at... what? Level 22? ... Wow... Just... wow. 40 freaking levels? For real? Sure, Disarm Traps, Blind and Safe Fall, but no one really uses those on a DAILY basis, unless they're either:
A. Fooling around (either on hostile/neutral NPC's or in duels)
or
B. Not very good Rogues at all

EDIT: Still... WITH those three mentioned "spells" (I don't believe Rogues cast, just my opinion though) the gap is still 22 levels. That's still quite a bit. I don't know about other classes but I'm not too happy with repeatedly going to my trainer just to learn ranks and no cool new tricks instead.

DeathBlood의 댓글

When talented correctly, it's possible for Rogues to have a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison. This allows for more Envenom use, especially useful for PvE.

"Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy" -Deadly Poison
"Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10%" -Improved Poisons
"Following the Envenom attack you have an additional 15% chance to apply Deadly Poison " -Envenom
"increases the bonus chance to apply Deadly Poison when Envenom is used by an additional 45%". -Master Poisoner

Keep in mind, Precision increases chance to hit with poisons (not be resisted), not increasing the chance to apply poisons.

Regardless, with a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison, this allows you to get more doses up on your target quicker, even faster with Slice and Dice. More 5-dose Envenoms means more dps. Sounds like common sense, but I've seen PvE Rogues take Turn the Tables over Master Poisoner; and that is a serious mistake, not just for missing out on the 3% crit chance utility being provided to the raid, but for the sacrifice in their own personal Envenom dps.

KyorraWindblade의 댓글

Patch notes, 3.2.2 PTR:

"Master Poisoner: Now also provides a 33/66/100% chance of preventing Envenom from consuming Deadly Poison."

Discuss.

265915의 댓글

As a Muti rogue myself. I only use FoK during trash or to pad meters ( :) )

Why the heck do you all care so much about the FoK nerf? It is still one of the most powerful AoE spells in the game barred maybe by the shadow priests mind sear. It NEEDED a nerf.

Sure it stinks for people who do a cheesy 3's or 5's combo with the Throwing Weapon Spec nerf, but come on for PvE its not a big deal at all. You can still do 8k+ DPS on trash (If that's what kind of DPS you care about...)

Blizzard said they want to focus more on daggers for rogues, because it is THE rogue weapon. They want to make rogues single target DPS better for Muti. Why are you all qq'ing about FoK? Be greatful that they are still thinking about us and giving us some nice Envenom buffs.

qirvos의 댓글

Personally, the first thing I am going to do is test FoK damage with 2 good swords to see if I can make up the 35% damage delta between swords and daggers

Let's do quick and dirty math here, assumptions:

no multiplyiers of any kind taken into the account , no crit, AP, glyph, talent builds and so on - as I said quick and dirty
formula - avg dmg from MH + avg dmg from OH
same dps weapons to compare

Daggers taken for that calculation:
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=45605 - dmg = 338,1
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=45930 - dmg = 263,025
result:
601,125

Swords:
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=45266 - dmg = 313,25
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=45142 - dmg = 187,6
result:
500,85

If you are really FoK fanatic make yourself macro which would put 2 as slow weaps as possible into both weapon slots, the do the FoK - that would improve you AoE dps for sure. Make sure you also are targetted at any mob and you do white dmg at the same time.

However quistion is - is dps on clearing trash important at all? mobs die pretty quickly anyway. In my raiding exp I don't have much opportunity to do a lot of combo finishers at all on trash before they die anyway.

qirvos의 댓글

Blizzard said they want to focus more on daggers for rogues, because it is THE rogue weapon. They want to make rogues single target DPS better for Muti. Why are you all qq'ing about FoK? Be greatful that they are still thinking about us and giving us some nice Envenom buffs.

rank up! Totally agree - if you want do more dmg on trash, go combat, glyph up flurry, adrenaline rush and FoK and fire up those 3 abilites on every trash group. You may consider yourself as a 5th horseman of apocalypse from now on :) at least as long as you are on trash ;)

feng의 댓글

pls stop being off topic. if you want to discuss about FoK go here: https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=51723#comments

Reddy의 댓글

New 3.2.2 PTR Build 10433:

Envenom now benefits from Attack Power a little more.

1 dose: damage
2 doses: damage
3 doses: damage
4 doses: damage
5 doses: damage

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기력 35	근접 사정거리

즉시

적에게 마무리 일격을 날립니다. 대상에 걸린 맹독을 소비하여 대상에게 즉시 독 피해를 입힙니다. 각 연계 점수 당 하나의 맹독을 소비합니다. 독살 공격 후 15%의 확률로 연계 점수당 1초에 추가로 1초 동안 대상을 맹독에 감염시키고 75%의 확률로 순간 효과 독에 감염시킵니다.
맹독 1회: [(117) * 1 + Attack power * 0.09]의 피해
맹독 2회: [(117) * 2 + Attack power * 0.18]의 피해
맹독 3회: [(117) * 3 + Attack power * 0.27]의 피해
맹독 4회: [(117) * 4 + Attack power * 0.36]의 피해
맹독 5회: [(117) * 5 + Attack power * 0.45]의 피해

버프

독살	독

맹독을 감염시킬 확률 15%만큼 증가
순간 효과 독을 감염시킬 확률 75%만큼 증가
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무효화 타입

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기력 35

사정거리

5 야드 (Combat)

시전 시간

즉시

재사용 대기시간

해당 없음

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1 초

효과 #1

School Damage (자연)
값: 118
PvP 배율: 1

효과 #2

Apply Aura: Modifies Proc Frequency (26)
값: 75%
PvP 배율: 1
영향 받는 주문들:

순간 효과 독	순간 효과 독	순간 효과 독 II
순간 효과 독 II	순간 효과 독 III	순간 효과 독 III
순간 효과 독 IV	순간 효과 독 V	순간 효과 독 VI
순간 효과 독 IV	순간 효과 독 V	순간 효과 독 VI
순간 효과 독 VII	순간 효과 독 VII	순간 효과 독 VIII
순간 효과 독 IX	순간 효과 독 VIII	순간 효과 독 IX

효과 #3

Apply Aura: Modifies Proc Chance (18)
값: 15
PvP 배율: 1
영향 받는 주문들:

맹독	맹독 II	맹독
맹독 II	맹독 III	맹독 IV
맹독 III	맹독 IV	맹독가죽 독
맹독 V	맹독 V	맹독 VI
맹독 VI	맹독 VII	맹독 VII
포자 구름	맹독 VIII	맹독 IX
맹독 VIII	맹독 IX

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